I recently had a conversation with one of my female friends who is a self-described feminist. We were arguing about the prospect of hitting a girl. I had poked some fun at her clumsiness and she slapped me across my face playfully. I then proceeded return the favor (jokingly), and to that I was given the angry retort: "Don't you know you mustn't hit a girl?" That particular statement lead to a long discussion about feminism. Let me say this: I am not anti-feminist per se. I am very much an advocate for the equality of sexes and for increased women's rights and freedoms. However, I am often very irritated and become very much irked when I am faced by the modern feminist movement, or post-feminist movement as some may refer to it. Here we see not a group of women who seek equality amidst a world dominated by males, but we see women who, having largely attained their freedoms and gained their equality, seek more; supremacy of their sex, for lack of better expression. I am also quite peeved by those women who speak of equality of gender, and purport the same stereotypes that dominate in our very masculo-centric society.
Historically, the first wave of feminism was a group of marginalized English women who fought for the right to vote in the late 1900's. Women's rights have come a long way since then. Subsequent waves of feminism have ensured that women everywhere share much the same freedoms and rights as men do. More and more, women are being treated as equals to men in the workplace, in public spheres and in society as a whole. I admit that there is still a bias amongst men, and that there is still much to be done to ensure that women have an equal standing as men do in all aspects of life. However, the modern feminist movement is ridiculous, and their ideologies are much the opposite to the notion of equity.
There are contradictions in modern feminist doctrine. Modern feminists claim that women should be given equal opportunity to employment as men, including more physically demanding jobs such as construction, police-work, fire-fighting and others. They claim that the notion that men are "more physically capable" of carrying out these jobs than women is a fallacy, and that women should be given equal consideration. As a matter of fact, speaking in broadly general terms, it is a physiological fact that women's bodies. IN GENERAL, are made up in such a way that they are not as physically apt as men for certain tasks. This is why in sports the men's and women's divisions are separate. HOWEVER, it is indeed also true that many women are indeed just-as-or-more-capable-than men at some physical activities; there are many fine female police officers, firefighters and the like, and so I agree that there should be more equality in that respect. NOW, lets relate this to the issue of men striking women. As a tradition, it has always been considered a sin for a man to strike a woman because of perceived differences in physical makeup. However, based on the previous logic, isn't there a case that a woman should be just as physically capable of handling violence as a man? (Incidentally, I personally refrain from hitting women because I was raised as a gentleman, a concept which, admittedly, inadvertently contributes to the male supremacist stereotype, but which i see as right because I definitely recognize the GENERAL physical disparities between men and women). There are approximately 5000 reported cases in North America each year of men who are abused by their wives; are we saying that it is wrong for them to physically defend themselves "because their wives are women?". If Serena Williams and Michael J. Fox got into a fight, would you say that the dimunitive sitcom star, being the "physically superior being", should refrain from striking the physically-gifted tennis pro ? Don't misinterpret me readers, I am not at all trying to justify violence against women, I am simply saying that, in certain cases, whilst I myself would refrain from it because of personal doctrine, there are cases where it would be logically acceptable principle of a man were to hit a woman. The point here is that it is contradictory to defend women's rights on grounds of physical equality, and by the same token defend their rights on grounds of physical disparity. Just something to think about....
And now I move to female supremacists. How is their doctrine different from male chauvinism? I disagree totally with modern feminist doctrine in much the same way as I disagree with black supremacist groups, or other previously marginalized groups that seek to "get back" at society by forming groups that marginalize those who previously marginalized them. Do two wrongs make a right? Modern Feminists use whining and complaining about the past as a hollow justification of why women should be our leaders. I believe our leaders should be our leaders not because they are man or woman, but because they are good leaders...and just as a matter of principle, I am a sucker for a good argument, using flawless logic and untainted common sense to advance a position. And while I will neither subscribe to nor support a totally male-dominated society I am more inclined to look favorably upon a male supremacist argument, simply because of the fact that men do control the world; they control history, they control wealth and they control the way the world is run. And this is not as a matter of necessity; it is simply as a matter of fact. To those feminists who seek a female dominated world, as well well as to male chauvinists, I say this: in much the same way as there is much room for equality of sexes in MANY aspects of life, there are also certain things which will always be better suited for men, just as there will always be certain things that are better suited for women.
But anyway these are just my thoughts...what do you think ?
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ReplyDeleteA friend of my family, a 41 yr old man, was arrested for domestic violence after his wife had stabbed HIM and HE called the police. It is astounding to have to suffer jail time for having been stabbed. It really makes you wonder what may have happened had the situation been reversed. The fight for equality is a tricky thing. All are equal, yet some are more equal than others.
ReplyDeleteNice thoughts, it reassuring to know that some folks actually think about stuff like this. However, as the intellectual that you proclaim u are, ur opinion on this matter doesn’t seem to be influenced by anything academic. I do not know what u and your friend discussed and I do not know what classifies her as a self-described feminist, but it seems that u got a lot of ur opinions from this discussion, perhaps you should not limit ur opinions to hearsay from angry, self-described females, who also seem to have the same belief, of not hitting a girl, which ur mother taught u.
ReplyDeleteYour idea of feminism is typical- u seem to believe it’s about women trying to overpower men. You say that you’re an advocate for the equality of sexes and for increased womens rights and freedoms, yet ur irked and irritated by the very movement that tries to achieve this. Your idea and opinions about the feminist movement, modern or not seems very misinformed. If anything it is the same movement, the only difference, and you are right for there is a diff, is that this movement is fighting for more. It is fighting for more rights for all women and not only white, middle-class women who were initially privileged with the resources to create the first wave. This ridiculous modern feminists u dislike so much actually fight for everything: the rights of coloured women, such as those in your family, women belonging to minorities (I’m sure u got lots of friends) and women of developing countries.
If for one second u think that feminists try to overpower men, then your thinking is very insecure, because I think that poverty, violence, lack of education and other basic resources are more important things to prioritize in a feminist agenda than “getting back” at men.
Every movement is subjected to criticisms but your view points are totally off. Instead of seeing that feminism brings light to the issues that oppress women by trying to find ways to neutralize it, you sound as though you are personally insulted by this movement.
Your statement that women are trying to seek supremacy over men is a very problematic one. Why the paranoia? You have to keep in mind it is NOT A BATTLE OF THE SEXES.
It’s this very mentality of either or, this concept of black and white, woman and man, good or bad that is the problem. You often learn that when people think in dichotomies, such as this, it can create conflict. Perhaps this is why you feel this way.
Anyways, I hope that you do some more research that can further open up ur mind because we need smart people to come up with ideas and policies that are all-inclusive and do not marginalize any group by reducing them to either whinny, nagging women or insecure, egoistical men. ;)
well i must say as your friend i am very proud of your new found hobby.
ReplyDeletehowever as a fellow academic like yourself and being student of classes that have dealt with sch issues i must admit that this piece is indeed whilst logically written needs to be amended by incorporating history and fact together with logic.
some of your arguments are true but yu then purport hypothse from them of our own making and state both as "the fact"
women or femenists rather do infact acknowledge that men are physically different from women however they state that physical differences should nolt be used as a criteria for some jobs where it is not necessary or not core.
secondly i post this question for you - A man and a woman are to run a 1000m race the woman is chained to a 10lb ball and the man is free they set off after ten mnutes the woman is unchained. is the race fair? we gave her her right but what of the outcome, what of the race, what of fairness?
thank you all for your feedback, and i acknowledge that my initial piece is flawed, but only because i perhaps did not make my point as clearly as i would have liked....when referring to the modern feminist movement, i neglected to acknowledge the modern movement's more comprehensive fight for equality...indeed i should have specified that my issue was not with the modern movement, but in fact at the sect of women in modern society who take the male-female argument to the extreme. i am addressing those females who complicate many situation by narrow-mindedly perceiving many situations as "attacks on femininity" or the like. for example, i was recently observant in a situation where a friend of mine was asked to refrain from doing something by another friend, who saw that she was nervous and hesitant and who didnt want to put her in an uncomfortable situation. to his request, she angrily asked "because im a woman?" i know for a fact that there was no sexist undertone meant, but my over-anxious friend seems to imply that there was.
ReplyDeletea more careful reading of my final paragraph will undoubtedly reveal the point of my argument, which is simply that the male-female argument is ultimately a pointless one in that each side will always favor their own gender when ultimately the human condition transcends gender, just as it transcends race and social status. it is plain fact that some things will never change, such as the disparity between males and females in certain aspects of life, and this is simply by the nature of the specifics and not by any preconceived stereotype. instead of pining over whether or not these disparities exist, we should all accept them as unchangeable and move on to a higher level or thinking instead of arguing over things that cannot be changed. i graciously thank ms. samyukta for pointing out issues of poverty and the like, which should doubtless be more fixated in the minds of people instead of issues or disparity between sexes.
so ur not angry at feminists, just at the "narrow-minded" women who "complicate" situations because they dislike the classification of gender(masculine/feminine)and gender roles?
ReplyDeletei must say that u spent a lot of time writing about a pointless argument. dont give uppp...u have already acknowleged that there is a disparity by the mere act of putting ur thoughts into words.
i disagree 100% that it is the "nature of species" that makes it factual that some things will never change. if anything i think that it is human nature to see change as an irresistible challenge that drives an insatiable need to improve life and improve society.
ur last comment only serves to illustrate ur limited ability to grasp the deeper meaning of my post ms. samyukta....as i said before, and will say again, the whole point of my argument was not to advance a position against feminism, but to use it as a tool for my wider criticism of extremism in general. and as for the nature of species, i can tell it is a touchy topic for you...it was not my intention to make you feel like i am referring to women as "inadequate" or the like, borrowing from my friend rajivgopie, SOME modern feminist have acknowledged that despite all the banter, disparities do exist between the genders...this is not necessarily biased in favor of males as you undoubtedly assumed....but the fact is that some things just cannot change, such as physical makeup of men and women, FOR EXAMPLE,.....but, AGAIN i say, the ultimation is that people shoulc move on from judging based on preconceived notions of gender and begin to gauge situations based on more tangible criteria such as differences in character or intelligence, traits that differ from person to person and not gender to gender.....
ReplyDeletei won't get into the banter of discussing identity politics with u right now, but just have to say one thing that sums up how i feel about this post and ur responses to readers' comments.
ReplyDeleteur last comment only serves to illustrate ur limited ability to grasp the deeper meaning of my post ms. samyukta....
if u can't respond to a woman without insulting and being condescending to her first, i don't know what makes u think u have anything intelligent to say about feminism. period.
whoa...why all the anger prof fmatty? perhaps u shud be clearer in makin ur points, u seem to change "what u really meant" at every new post. u say A but what u really mean is B...and i'm supposed to what? read ur mind?
ReplyDeletemaybe ur the one who is unable to grasp what it is that i'm tryin to say (u probably dont even know what ur really tryin to say), u think u have been reiterating points, but in reality all ur doing is makin up new stuff as u go along and then crediting urself by sayin it was ur initial thoughts.
this is not entirely bad, bcuz it it shows that ur limited understanding of feminism or extreminism improves when u actually give it some thought. hopefully this can remove u from the restricting, single frame of mind u seem to be stuck in.
btw how do u kno what i feel or what i assume? when did i disagree on the disparity btwn genders? and as ur friend rajiv also pointed out it is the HISTORY that has a bias in favour of males, NOT anything that i have said.
despite ur condescendin and judgemental attitude (which was present since ur initial entry), i agree on the last that u thing u have said.
on a final note, i hope that u have more success on getting ur "deeper meanings" across on whatever else it is that u choose to write about.
good luck.
to dakus, here again i am misinterpreted...i DONT MEAN limited ability BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN..that is not at all what i meant...i meant her limited ability because of her thought process REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SHE IS MAN OR WOMAN OR KLINGON OR APE OR SETIENT BEING OR MOKO JUMBIE......my last point about intelligence and character being specific to person irregardless of sex cannot be made any clearer can it ? anyway, i am deeply sorry that this has turned out the way that it has, it was genuinely not my intention to put wood into the fire of a pointless debate, i was simply offering my own personal perspectives...perhaps when tempers reside those who have bashed me will be able to see the more important points i tried to make...but to all those who i have offended i am deeply sorry and i reiterate that i am 100% in support of equality of women...those who know me personally can certainly attest to this....
ReplyDeleteto all those who have commented....i apologize for my careless statements and i admit my faults, especially my inability to say what it is i really meant....i dont expect sympathy or remorse, i come to u all as a man corrected, and humbly ask that u read my third post, which will hopefully clarify what exactly i meant, and put an end to this debate....after all i am a human being and i acknowledge my mistakes, i am not "wrong and strong" so to speak...please just take a look at it....
ReplyDeletelet me atempt to salvage some credibility by amending some of my flawed logic and unthougtful references (thank you to those who commented for the wake up call) by restating the initial point i was trying to make...firstly, all credit to the feminist movement and their tireless work to try to earn women the respect and equality which they rightly deserve, i foolishly referred to them in my anger when writing my first post when my issue was not with them directly...my issues were with a small group of women and a handful of situations which i found to be contrary with the notion of equality...and i will illustrate my point with three examples...first: my uncle once had to hire an assistant in his law firm, and he narrowed it down to a boy and a girl; both had the same level of education, both were well spoken and seemed equally good candidates for the job. after careful consideration, my uncle hired the boy. the girl (who is my friend) came to me afterwards and said, "Your uncle is sexist. I didnt get the job because Im a girl." I went to my uncle afterwards and asked him, "uncle, how come u didnt hire my friend and you hired that boy?" he replied to me, "well, they were both great candidates, but the boy has worked as a law assistant before, and the girl hasnt, so I had to hire him because of his experience..."
ReplyDeletesecond: a 17 year old student of presestation college was walking home from school one day when he was confronted by three 16 year old girls from san fernando east junior secondary school. they taunted him and demanded that he give them money. when he refused, they accosted him, slapping him and kicking him while attempting to pull away his school bag. defending himself, the boy fought back and kicked one of the girls in her stomach. a resident of the area (a woman) came out of her house on hearing the commotion just in time to see the boy kicking the girl in her stomach, and called the police. the matter went to juvenile court. the magistrate (who is a woman)scolded the girls and sentenced the boy to 3 months service in the juvenile delinquent centre (YTC), saying that "he should have known better than to kick a girl....". Thirdly, my friends and I (male and female) were shooting a video tribute to a mutual friend who had just graduated. we had devised a skit that had me playing a talk show host interviewing a celebrity couple (my two friends, who are boyfriend and girlfriend). several takes revealed that girlfriend was unable to speak her mind because she was a bit camera shy and was not good at public speaking (which she admitted). the friend who was video-taping (a male) then told the couple that the boyfriend should then do the talking, with the girlfriend just there for support. he was clearly facilitating the girl's shyness, but upon his request, she curtly replied, "Why, because I'm a woman?"
My friends, I do not deny that women have been wronged and mistreated throughout history, I do not deny that many women are not hired for jobs they deserve simply because they are women; i acknowledge that that millions of women are victims of domestic and other types of violence perpetrated by men on a daily basis, and i readily admit that many men continue to subjectify women to specific roles because of unfair notions of male supremacy...the point i am trying to make is that, in the struggle for equality, situations as i have described above, although admittedly random and highly situational, do not help the equality struggle any little bit...women have every reason to fight fot their rights, but must be careful not to turn every single situation into a male-female conflict issue, because ultimately this way of thinking is an anti-thesis to the problem at at hand......